tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4051826042602269061.post3302238916868333058..comments2024-03-25T09:01:20.997-07:00Comments on Diary of an Autodidact: Aftermath: A Way Forward For Of Us Who Still Believe In Basic Human DecencyDiary of an Autodidacthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11849157548643091986noreply@blogger.comBlogger39125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4051826042602269061.post-12692147022244571182018-09-13T16:14:58.440-07:002018-09-13T16:14:58.440-07:00Just a response to R: No. Trump did NOT do well wi...Just a response to R: No. Trump did NOT do well with minorities. He barely won White women. He did significantly worse with non-white voters than the past GOP candidates. He won because of white people - particularly white people with racist views. Diary of an Autodidacthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11849157548643091986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4051826042602269061.post-22242661667725866722017-06-27T21:31:47.524-07:002017-06-27T21:31:47.524-07:00" I believe this election is going to acceler..." I believe this election is going to accelerate the exit process as young people continue to reject the injustices of the past, and seek to build a future that includes women and people of color in their vision for America and Christianity."<br /><br />I'd agree with this. But it appears that the GOP have figured out a way around the demographics slowly not favoring them; voter suppression. They'll simply try to make it as hard as possible for people who normally don't vote for the GOP TO vote. In fact, there's a very good chance HWSNBN won the election BECAUSE of voter suppression...<br /><br />And as for your statement about the 20 million off health care, it's June 28th, and what are the GOP Senators working on? Ripping health care away from the poor. The issue is, they don't want to be BLAMED for it (and a few of them think the numbers that will lose health care are TOO LOW...)...Dark Phoenix (Nixa)https://www.blogger.com/profile/11557085553371905683noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4051826042602269061.post-27092857970456171012016-12-22T10:24:43.510-08:002016-12-22T10:24:43.510-08:00Sometimes the things that we don't understand ...Sometimes the things that we don't understand that are horrifying and even confusing turn out to be God's way of dividing the sheep from the goats.Mary E. Stephenshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09206071568335923658noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4051826042602269061.post-78318578429428517942016-11-22T13:36:52.714-08:002016-11-22T13:36:52.714-08:00You're welcome. Use it as often and effective...You're welcome. Use it as often and effectively as you may. :)jochanaanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14143066702059757955noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4051826042602269061.post-35463030366752419842016-11-21T15:49:39.300-08:002016-11-21T15:49:39.300-08:00It has been encouraging to see some of those. On t...It has been encouraging to see some of those. On the one hand, some relatives and friends were disappointing, but on the other, it has been nice to see a number of them start to really see and understand the level of racial hate which still exists. As my dad put it, many Christians appear to have decided that an increasing number of people aren't their neighbor. Fortunately, others are rejecting that, and embracing like never before. Diary of an Autodidacthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11849157548643091986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4051826042602269061.post-1578117723426736412016-11-21T11:18:35.666-08:002016-11-21T11:18:35.666-08:00Tim S., only responding to your final paragraph in...Tim S., only responding to your final paragraph in the brackets - Having lived much of my life among predominantly rural whites (by and large), I have zero (0, none, zilch) expectation that a multi-millionaire big businessman who was born with the proverbial silver spoon in his mouth will actually know how, or even care, to do things that are beneficial to rural America in any significant way (not even considering the whole race issue). Just my opinion.Mary E. Stephenshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09206071568335923658noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4051826042602269061.post-3225111577286165672016-11-18T20:49:03.940-08:002016-11-18T20:49:03.940-08:00Thanks for understanding about the voting issue. S...Thanks for understanding about the voting issue. Some Christians seem to think that you're almost a heretic if you don't vote. My own family was actually shouldered out of a church for not voting one year when it would be "the end of American" if _____________ didn't get elected. Ho hum. <br /><br />By the way, my husband and I have also run across the whole blindness to racism thing with baby boomers. We're really puzzled about that too. <br /><br />On the other hand, I've seen one man I wouldn't have expected to do so un-apologetically announce on Facebook that he was voting for a non-mainline candidate. In visiting some blogs that I check in on occasionally, I saw some real determination to follow Christ without reference to the typical Christian political right nonsense, and in one case a commentor who plainly said that she had stopped listening to all the famous Christians' political rhetoric and was clinging to Jesus and His word alone. I was quite encouraged. <br /><br />If there is one good thing I hoped for from this election cycle it was to see some Christians finally realize that it isn't going to work to choose "the lesser of the two evils" because the lesser one is still evil. I can honestly thank God to see that happen.Mary E. Stephenshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09206071568335923658noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4051826042602269061.post-68114635545006616472016-11-16T08:16:26.165-08:002016-11-16T08:16:26.165-08:00Thank you for your beautiful and heartfelt reply. ...Thank you for your beautiful and heartfelt reply. I find reasons for faith like yours far more compelling than any logical appeal or statement of doctrine. I too believe in the transcendent beauty of art and music and the deep power of love across all mankind. The secular humanists would be glad to have you if you ever want to come over to the other side ;-) <br /><br />I appreciate your sympathy with family issues. You are definitely right that, to them, our rejection of faith feels like a rejection of them and all they hold dear. No matter how many times we say that's not the case, it's hard to battle those emotions. My husband is facing the very real loss of his parents in his life, at least for the foreseeable future--a turn of events neither of us expected.<br /><br />Keep speaking the truth and fighting the good fight! I imagine it gets lonely and discouraging out there at times, and I wish you strength and courage to carry on. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08092997659270421955noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4051826042602269061.post-72032823047127821832016-11-15T14:51:21.094-08:002016-11-15T14:51:21.094-08:00That's a hard question, isn't it? I remain...That's a hard question, isn't it? I remain a Christian because I find Christ to be inspiring. I wish to be more like him, and build his kingdom. I would imagine that many can share my desire to see the world be built more on "Love your neighbor as yourself" and "inasmuch as you do it for the least or these, you have done it to me." I believe that mankind is made in the divine image, and that we are called to seek to benefit, not harm, those outside of our tribe.<br /><br />I believe in transcendence, and our human desire to do so. While admitting that I am biased because I was raised Christian, I find that Christ and his teachings best resonate with my desire to be one with the divine. <br /><br />I believe mankind is broken, and in ways that cannot solely be explained through Darwinism (although I do believe evolution best fits the evidence we have). I believe the dark human desire to harm others just because they are other goes beyond mere tribalism, and that the idea that humankind chose darkness rather than light to explain what we see. <br /><br />I believe that music moves us (even though music is unnecessary in a Darwinian sense) because of our need for transcendence. Arts of all kinds resonate with us because we are more than mere animals, intent on reproduction. <br /><br />I believe in love. I believe love is the most powerful force in the universe. And I believe that God is love. <br /><br />You might notice this is not a doctrinal statement. Probably the best I can do on that front is to quote the Nicene Creed. <br /><br />To go back to something else you mention, my wife and I too have had difficulty with my parents because of our rejection of Fundamentalism. I think that a significant part of that is that when you build your life and very identity on a particular idea, when your kids reject that idea, it feels like a rejection of you. So when my wife chooses to work outside the home, that feels like a rejection of my mother, who stayed home - and drew her identity from that. Perhaps for your parents, they realize they have failed at what they believed was most important, and your rejection of their religion is - to them - rejection of them and their core identity. <br /><br />Definitely some sympathy there. It's hard and it doesn't necessarily get better or easier. Diary of an Autodidacthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11849157548643091986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4051826042602269061.post-43766731972825093262016-11-15T14:32:48.577-08:002016-11-15T14:32:48.577-08:00For what it's worth, a protest vote or abstent...For what it's worth, a protest vote or abstention is thoroughly defensible. And yes, that is encouraging. <br /><br />Good points about the rabble being hard to control once roused... Diary of an Autodidacthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11849157548643091986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4051826042602269061.post-64378887660935091252016-11-15T14:29:39.082-08:002016-11-15T14:29:39.082-08:00I'm thinking it is going to be necessary to wr...I'm thinking it is going to be necessary to write about abortion at some point. <br /><br />One of my watershed moments was finding Paul Weyrich's admission that Abortion was always meant to be a political ploy to guarantee Evangelical votes in favor of pro-segregation policies. And DAMN, it worked well this election, didn't it? <br /><br />Excellent points, Dana. <br /><br />I find it distressing that Abortion is considered "The Only Issue That Matters(TM)" but that there is a deafening silence on the issue of immigration. Which, considering Jesus Christ himself said that turning immigrants away was how you got yourself sent to hell, seems mighty important, yes?Diary of an Autodidacthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11849157548643091986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4051826042602269061.post-19144940609010676232016-11-15T14:23:57.960-08:002016-11-15T14:23:57.960-08:00I largely agree with you that there are decent Tru...I largely agree with you that there are decent Trump supporters. And I agree that the white middle class does have some legitimate grievances. With you on segregation as well. <br /><br />But none of that changes the fact that they chose (for whatever reason) to vote for a White Supremacist campaign. <br /><br />I also strongly believe that refusing to vote for either of the major party candidates is a thoroughly defensible position, and I applaud all those who did it. I would have probably gone that route if anyone other than Trump or Cruz had been on the GOP ticket. <br /><br />But all of those reasons you list still don't change the meaning of this election to those who are not white. <br /><br />Just this weekend, one of my teen and tween daughters' closest friends was asked when she would be deported. Ditto for the biracial teenaged daughter of a friend. Ditto for the retired Mexican American colleague while at the local bank branch. Ditto for the nephew of a musical colleague who has just come back from his 5th tour of duty. Ditto for the teenaged children of some other friends, subjected to multiple times at different places to racial epithets and threats. <br /><br />The best line I have heard about this: "I wish they understood that we’re not grieving because we didn’t get our own way, but are grieving because the nation instantly became less safe for so many– particularly for our kids."<br /><br />This is the experience of my non-white friends. This nation has become a far more hostile place for them, and they are hurting. And hurting a hell of a lot more than those merely facing economic hardship. I'm sorry to be harsh on that, but there is a world of difference between going backwards economically, and being subjected to racial hatred. <br /><br />I too have Trump supporters in my family. And most of them, at worst, voted because of self-interested reasons. Many did so because of party affiliation or abortion. <br /><br />But at the end of the day, it doesn't really matter why, with this kind of result. <br /><br />Many of us predicted this, that this kind of massive support for someone running on an expressly racist and xenophobic platform would result in harassment and violence against non-whites. I myself have tried to sound some warnings over the last year. But the bottom line is that overt White Supremacy is not a deal breaker for 80% of white evangelicals. <br /><br />If you want to take your own advice on this, and listen outside the bubble, here is a good start. This was sent to me by some friends from church who have non-white children who have had to put up with harassment and threats. This is the experience they are having. <br /><br />http://www.shannondingle.com/blog//i-want-to-help-you-understand-my-lament<br /><br />[Totally beyond the scope of this post, but also worth mentioning: 2016 GOP policies will certainly not benefit those who voted for them. If anything, the very people - rural whites - who turned out en mass stand to be further harmed by the cuts to social programs. But I guess they will have fewer brown skinned people in their towns...] <br /><br /> Diary of an Autodidacthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11849157548643091986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4051826042602269061.post-41371100351678323862016-11-15T14:05:54.641-08:002016-11-15T14:05:54.641-08:00Dana, since we too are practically pixel pals, and...Dana, since we too are practically pixel pals, and have e-mailed, go find one of my past e-mails, and search FB using that e-mail address. It should come up. Diary of an Autodidacthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11849157548643091986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4051826042602269061.post-26677636546716541762016-11-15T13:38:36.575-08:002016-11-15T13:38:36.575-08:00I've been reading you blog for quite a while n...I've been reading you blog for quite a while now--it's on my bookmarked list of favorites. Your series on Modesty Culture was amazing; I was homeschooled in the Southern Baptist bubble for most of my life and saw so much of the nastiness of purity culture play out for my peers. I was fortunate to have a father who tamped down my mother's more fundamentalist urges.<br /><br />As one of the growing number of millenials who has left religion and stares back at that world in horror, you absolutely hit the nail on the head with this post. I know my evangelical in-laws voted for the white supremacist cuz abortion. They clearly do not give a crap about racism (see: huge uproar we had when I called them out on their racist comments about "how nice it was to see an educated black person on TV" after silently enduring 10 years worth of snide comments about sagging pants, lack of worth ethic, and their general moral failing).<br /><br />This election couldn't have come at a worse time, frankly. Just a few months ago my husband and I finally came out his parents as agnostics/atheists, and the fallout has been spectacular. I guess the latest proselytizing technique is guilt and rage? I'm a little out of the loop on those things these days...<br /><br />Anyways, I just wanted to say I'm grateful for your perspective. These days it's so easy for me to paint all Christians with the same foul brush, and I need reminders that there are decent people on your side too. I am curious though--why do you remain a Christian? You strike me as one of the rare people who could give a coherent answer to that question :-)Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08092997659270421955noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4051826042602269061.post-5945650416156041712016-11-14T16:54:03.304-08:002016-11-14T16:54:03.304-08:00I'm going to keep the phrase "when the he...I'm going to keep the phrase "when the heartland awakes" close to my heart as I continue to pray through these hard days. Thank you.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06482424932595372729noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4051826042602269061.post-77386444382630870762016-11-13T17:03:04.824-08:002016-11-13T17:03:04.824-08:00I also don't notice a tremendous amount of rac...I also don't notice a tremendous amount of racism right around where we live. In fact, there are Arabic people who are active in our local town and community.Mary E. Stephenshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09206071568335923658noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4051826042602269061.post-56801684803939922422016-11-13T17:01:28.101-08:002016-11-13T17:01:28.101-08:00I don't have time for a long comment, but just...I don't have time for a long comment, but just three cents.<br /><br />You said that at least half didn't vote for white nationalism. From the statistics I saw it was a lot more than that. Almost half of the voters didn't even vote - my husband and I included. (I'm risking saying that here since this post is on basic decency.) So, with the almost 1/4 who voted for the D. candidate, that gives you something between 2/3 and 3/4 of the voting population who didn't vote for it. Just sayin'... That should give you some encouragement I hope.<br /><br />Some people try to claim that "the great white hope" isn't really racist but has been misunderstood. Without going into a debate over that, my thought is that even if he isn't (disclaimer), there is a rabble rousing element to what happened, and the rabble is very hard to control once they are roused - even for someone with good intention (disclaimer).<br /><br />I live in a county in Texas where the first successful lawsuit was ever won against the KKK. This was done by Dan Moody at the Georgetown courthouse. Strange to say, I'm pretty sure this county voted for "the great white hope" by and large. Some things just don't make sense.Mary E. Stephenshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09206071568335923658noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4051826042602269061.post-8963466059044114172016-11-13T16:31:16.594-08:002016-11-13T16:31:16.594-08:00Thank you for your comments, R. They were very ins...Thank you for your comments, R. They were very insightful. Having lived some 6 years in the South, I hear what you are saying. I've been frustrated too by the "poor us" attitude American Christians have been showing for very minor "persecution". It still perplexes me that people who read and preach the Bible (allegedly) will still play the victim card when they are "counted worthy to suffer for his name" (Acts 5:41) to even a small degree. Abusing power will only intensify the contention, and we are supposed to be the representatives of the Prince of Peace. When James and John wanted to rain fire from heaven on the inattentive Jesus roundly rebuked them!<br /><br />My husband and I also anticipate that there will be a lot of disappointment - at least we hope that those Christians who followed the piper will have the grace to be disappointed when things run amok. At this point I'm not sure what to expect.Mary E. Stephenshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09206071568335923658noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4051826042602269061.post-41033091458127289202016-11-13T11:54:18.950-08:002016-11-13T11:54:18.950-08:00I have seen it pointed out that if someone objects...I have seen it pointed out that if someone objects to "Black Lives Matter" with "All lives matter!" but is okay with "Blue Lives Matter," it's clear their problem is with the word "black."<br /><br />As for abortion, I shouldn't have to point out to my Trump-voting Christian friends that Jesus said exactly nothing about abortion of which we are aware, that the Bible nowhere bans it, that the OT punishment for causing a miscarriage is a fine, while the punishment for murder is death, that Numbers 5 describes something that sure sounds like an abortion brew being given by the local priest, etc -- but that Donald Trump pretty much personifies every single thing Jesus spoke against. Why is it that I, who no longer considers herself Christian, knows these things, but they don't seem to?<br />Dana Carpenderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14755223481359798197noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4051826042602269061.post-47037336297742189042016-11-13T11:42:10.494-08:002016-11-13T11:42:10.494-08:00I'd love to friend you. How do I know which of...I'd love to friend you. How do I know which of the people with your name is you?Dana Carpenderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14755223481359798197noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4051826042602269061.post-16346825642285204352016-11-12T12:19:41.200-08:002016-11-12T12:19:41.200-08:00This is a brave and noble idea. I will consider it...This is a brave and noble idea. I will consider it myself.Dana Carpenderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14755223481359798197noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4051826042602269061.post-81693792986703323212016-11-11T15:07:11.068-08:002016-11-11T15:07:11.068-08:00Great comments, R. I am realizing the same thing ...Great comments, R. I am realizing the same thing and how hard this is going to be...not least because of the anticipatory knowledge that so many will continue not to listen/care. But there is a percentage that will - hopefully not as small as I fear it is...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4051826042602269061.post-55624664259945433562016-11-11T14:31:45.643-08:002016-11-11T14:31:45.643-08:00All that to say... My rural evangelical neighbors ...All that to say... My rural evangelical neighbors are asking to be listened to now. I don't want to listen to them. But, rightly or wrongly, they feel oppressed and disenfranchised and low-esteemed. If I'm going to not be a hypocrite, I need to listen. Not debate. Not hold my tongue for 5 minutes so I can say my piece, but LISTEN. This is tricky, because I don't want to give airtime to more half-baked partisan talking points. And I don't want the church to become even more self-centered. I thrill when I read that "Christ saw them and was moved with compassion, because they were dispirited like sheep without a shepherd." But I wilt when I think of applying this to a self-absorbed church that DOES have a Shepherd they just can’t be bothered to follow. But are they dispirited? Yes. Does Christ still look at them? Yes. Is He still moved to compassion? I certainly hope so. And so if I want to be like Him, I need to learn what it is to be His eyes, to see people as He sees them. To be His ears, to hear them as He hears them. To be His heart, moved with compassion. <br /><br />It feels so ridiculous of course. So many other people are in genuine need. They aren't just dispirited, they are dying. The church already receives a disproportionate amount of attention and ta-ta-ing. And their self-righteous lack of compassion towards others who are upset right now is absolutely infuriating. I don't relish the idea of indulging this last gasp of post-privilege panic, this one last grasp at former glory and power. But I know this: refusing to listen on the basis of THAT’S RACIST won't work - for sure, not here in the South. They already feel the scorn of a nation and culture quite acutely. Doubling-down won't alleviate that grievance. I don't want to prop evangelicals back up into the power they desire, but I don't want to force their noses into the dirt, either. Simply listening, I think, is the best I can do there. <br /><br />I have observed many times with my fellow disillusioned Mills and Xs that Christians shouldn't be so appalled when they aren't honored in society. Those who are lately becoming more powerful and esteemed in American Society, after all, are only following the (positively wretched) example that the Christians modeled when THEY were powerful and esteemed - that of divisive discrimination, that of overstepped authority, that of forced agendas, that of Us vs Them. Anyone can be forgiven for assuming that the new powers that be are just doing what they were taught best. <br /><br />It would've been nice if evangelicals, while they were miserably convinced that they were forsaken and disdained for the past 8 years, could've set a better example for the "lowly and outcast" then they did. They didn't, instead stewing about what they deserved and were entitled to and what was owed them. Today, they believe they have been vindicated. They are back on top. Those who are now back in their proper place as the lowly and out-cast are now fretting and fearful, following that same example the Christians were setting up until Tuesday. Is that good enough for the Christians? Heck no. Those people are self-absorbed children! They think the world owes them! Have you ever seen such an entitled tantrum? (Uh yeah, like every Sunday for the past decade.) <br /><br />So now what? The Christians once again will set an example, but what will it look like? They believe they are in power again. I believe they have been played for fools and are in for bitter disappointment all around, but let's pretend that they are, in fact, restored. It seems obvious to me that they are fully prepared to resume their former abuse of that power in pursuit of their own interests. But it doesn't have to be that way – it can be different. But the time to think about setting that course differently is now, and it is so brief. If we refuse to be the ones who will start those conversations, I do not think they will happen.<br />Rhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04600051992932205901noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4051826042602269061.post-29272832285866069562016-11-11T14:31:25.503-08:002016-11-11T14:31:25.503-08:00I read an article on Slate yesterday that highligh...I read an article on Slate yesterday that highlighted that Trump did fine with those groups he supposedly had offended - women, Latinos and blacks. That suggests that maybe race and misogyny weren't as big of factors as had been initially assumed. This theory meshes with the response I've seen personally on Fb, where I've seen comments like "It's amazing how if you call people racists and bigots long enough, they'll turn on you." and "Media ASTOUNDED at rural turnout! Guess they can't pretend that it's just liberal cities that matter NOW!" <br /><br />It's ugly, sure. But it also tells me that while these people are at best #2s, they sure as heck do NOT want to be labeled as #3s, and that continuing to do so won't get anyone anywhere better. For my part, I live in a state where nearly 60,000 voted for former Imperial Wizard David Duke this week. In fact, there is a current (underground) KKK presence in my city. Those people are true #3s. As long as they are visible, it's easy for the rest of the population to insist that they clearly aren't racist, because they're not publicly-avowed White Supremacists like so many of their neighbors. What they ARE susceptible to is accepting institutionalized racism, which is harder for them to see or question, and which happens daily. But accusing them of worse only alienates.<br /><br />So the Southern Christians apparently don't hate brown people, they just don't care - not enough to stand up to Trump's rhetoric at literally ANY point and say, that's enough. What DO they care about? My best guess is still power. But no one is saying that. What they are saying overwhelmingly is (according to my Fb feed) … Abortion. A vote for Trump was a vote for life. There's much to be said about evangelicals and Abortion (not least of all how Abortion is still a means of power), and I know you're getting to it, but here's the thing. Of COURSE I want my friends and family to just. simply. listen. LISTEN to history, to science, to reason on this apparently Only Issue. Because too much evil has been committed in the name of opposing it at all costs, not least of all in this election. If this is truly the defining Thing, the one final plank of the moral-political platform that managed to outlast the hypocrisy on every other principle… then maybe it’s worth actually understanding, no? Yet, I feel strongly that what they likely need even more in this moment is for ME to listen. Here's how I came to feel this way.<br /><br />Several months back, when BLM was front and center in the news, my evangelical church decided to host a Back the Blue event. I was stunned. I didn't think we should compel anyone to choose sides, but especially not to side with the powerful and privileged – the Bible said something about that, didn’t it? I would've hoped we would've instead held an event where we compassionately listened to those who, rightly or wrongly, felt oppressed, disenfranchised, and low-esteemed. I tried to be reasonable and think that perhaps it played out this way because of the actual police officers who were in the congregation. Maybe this was about showing love and support for them in a tense situation. Maybe if we had some black families in attendance, there would've been a similar outpouring for them. And sure, maybe. But, not. Because there weren't any black families, or individuals, at all. Just middle class whites. This being the South, the church came by its lily-whiteness honestly - the town is extremely segregated in neighborhoods, schools and churches. But you didn't have to sacrifice your "property values" or your children's "education" or your physical "safety" to hear the other voices and witness the other experiences on this one - you could hear it and view it on the news from the comfort and safety of your brick-walled subdivision. So why was it so hard to LISTEN?Rhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04600051992932205901noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4051826042602269061.post-17347422528366058012016-11-10T18:54:12.867-08:002016-11-10T18:54:12.867-08:00I have been thinking about this a lot after readin...I have been thinking about this a lot after reading this piece, and lurking around in comboxes on various other blogs in which Dems are trying to figure out what went wrong:<br /><br />I think there is more going on here than racism and a "whitelash." This isn't to downplay the fact that Trump ran on a racial platform, or that he's given a voice to the alt-right and other hardcore white supremacist groups. That stuff is true, and it's horrible, and bad things are going to happen because of it. But from a statistical standpoint, the predictors of Trump support seem to be a bit more complicated than that. For example, the economic anxiety factor IS real:<br /><br />http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/trump-was-stronger-where-the-economy-is-weaker/<br /><br />Now it is true that you can't completely disentangle this from racism (esp. given Trump continually linking this to illegal immigrants from certain countries) - but to speak to what your wife said about those who will eventually take the same journey you did, people's stated motives do matter in this discussion. If they voted for Trump for some economic reason, I still can't condone that decision, but that shouldn't be treated the same way as an overt white supremacist going on about the dilution of the white race. If the person they're talking to insists against their stated motive that they really secretly agree with white supremacism or something similar, they're going to be much less willing to listen and might just entrench themselves further, instead of being nudged down a more positive path. (I think this can be true at the same time as a recognition that yes, they did ultimately make the choice to look past Trump's overt racism and that's definitely not good.)<br /><br />I had a discussion in a similar vein a day or two before the election with a FB friend. He ranted that Trump support might signal a shift away from democracy, because it could mean people want a demagogue to just suppress everyone who doesn't agree with them. Now I know full well there are people who do want exactly that, but when you get up to 47% of voters, that's not the actual conscious narrative going on in every single one of their heads.<br /><br />And obviously, none of this changes the fact that the macro level outcome of a decision to vote for Trump is going to be decidedly horrible.<br /><br />I am also bothered by the narratives going on in many places, treating the non-college voting bloc as stupid just because they don't have a degree. That's clearly wrong and not true. The correlation between non-college degree and Trump support is probably derived from the crappy financial/economic situations that usually result from not having a degree, not stupidity. (Trump will ultimately not be good this group, obviously, and he clearly doesn't actually give two figs about their welfare.)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com