tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4051826042602269061.post9144571512623575758..comments2024-01-16T09:50:16.276-08:00Comments on Diary of an Autodidact: The Duggars: How Fundamentalism's Teachings on Sexuality Create Predatory BehaviorDiary of an Autodidacthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11849157548643091986noreply@blogger.comBlogger168125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4051826042602269061.post-51117120683847565062023-06-14T07:41:45.016-07:002023-06-14T07:41:45.016-07:00I came back to this post after watching the recent...I came back to this post after watching the recent Duggar documentary (Shiny Happy People), since this was the post where I first found your blog eight years ago. I didn't really learn anything new about Gothard-ism from the documentary because I'd already learned it from your blog. Thanks for helping me make sense of my Gothard-adjacent years (half of my homeschool group growing up was heavily influenced by Gothard), thanks for providing guidance and resources on deconstruction & re-construction; and thanks for all the great book recommendations.MVhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16809507812294711129noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4051826042602269061.post-76128574890783067602021-06-09T17:28:55.303-07:002021-06-09T17:28:55.303-07:00Sorry that my comment is several years late! As I ...Sorry that my comment is several years late! As I was reading through this article, I was thinking about how common sexual harassment is in Middle Eastern and South Asian countries where male-female interactions are often severely restricted by social and legal norms to prevent sex or just about any intimacy outside of marriage. It does seem entirely plausible that a significantly large percentage of males who don’t have any real outlet for their natural urges would choose to act on them in unhealthy ways (i.e. street harassment, sexual assault). That said, it still seems like quite a leap for a boy raised in a rigid fundamentalist environment would resort to molesting female siblings instead of just masturbating if unsatisfied sexual desires were the issue. But regardless, you really made me evaluate my own views regarding modesty and sexuality so I would like to thank you for that!Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05269302524902020383noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4051826042602269061.post-30123683539651815742019-05-14T01:04:39.232-07:002019-05-14T01:04:39.232-07:00I realise this is an old post, but I was wondering...I realise this is an old post, but I was wondering, are there any groups that support parents who have left this movement? I know there are a lot for the children who have grown up in it. But as an ex brainwashed parent, I would love to find support on this painful road to recovery. One that doesn't rely on leaving the Christian faith. But on reconstructing that faith in a healthy way. Kiwiaussiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15322028429326751329noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4051826042602269061.post-26238346704521119542019-05-14T01:04:37.791-07:002019-05-14T01:04:37.791-07:00I realise this is an old post, but I was wondering...I realise this is an old post, but I was wondering, are there any groups that support parents who have left this movement? I know there are a lot for the children who have grown up in it. But as an ex brainwashed parent, I would love to find support on this painful road to recovery. One that doesn't rely on leaving the Christian faith. But on reconstructing that faith in a healthy way. Kiwiaussiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15322028429326751329noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4051826042602269061.post-18913682576646651912019-02-24T20:43:20.515-08:002019-02-24T20:43:20.515-08:00I believe that Josh molested his sisters because t...I believe that Josh molested his sisters because this theology teaches young boys and men to view women as an object for the pleasure of men and existing solely to serve their every whim through "submission." They are viewed as sex objects, baby breeding machines, maids, nannies, and secretaries instead of as fellow human beings and relatives. Josh saw their gender before he saw them as his sisters and that is the problem. He grew up hearing how women do not have a human right to any boundaries, for what else is the submission to men in everything besides a breach of human boundaries and a violation of basic human rights? So he violated his sisters boundaries. <br /><br />I don't care if my husband is commanding me to do something as harmless as washing the dishes, if I do not have a choice in the matter, then it is a violation of the right to self determine, to set boundaries, and to have choice. <br /><br />Men cannot respect a person who does not have authority over themself, they do not respect a person that has no freedom of choice. How can they respect someone who is not free to use their own judgment in life? What they have defined and created as Biblical womanhood is a different species all together. Man is fully human and has a spirit, he is the image of the divine and has personal government and full use of his mental facilities. While woman is reduced to the flesh only, she is made into the image of one of the animals. Existing only for three or four primary functions of survival like eat, shit, f**k, reproduce, and obey. <br /><br />Internally, I think that all patriarchs and complementarian men mock and scoff because they know that a woman's lot in life is shameful and undesirable. This is another reason why they do not value them enough to stop the abuser but instead turn a blind eye to abused women. On account of not having personal authority, it is one and the same as not having dignity. To these men women are not real persons so they are therefore disposable. Afterall, why should they respect someone who is obedient to their every whim.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4051826042602269061.post-67631404559586805702017-08-03T19:55:07.704-07:002017-08-03T19:55:07.704-07:00I give this article a 10/10. Excellent job, dude. ...I give this article a 10/10. Excellent job, dude. <3Carlyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03731007626208850237noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4051826042602269061.post-15790987354108704942016-12-22T13:26:50.134-08:002016-12-22T13:26:50.134-08:00You probably shouldn't post my last comment si...You probably shouldn't post my last comment since I forgot to use the proper terminology - "alleged rape of a female family member" etc. He has not been convicted yet. Sorry, I forgot.Mary E. Stephenshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09206071568335923658noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4051826042602269061.post-53088651229560358022016-12-22T13:08:45.656-08:002016-12-22T13:08:45.656-08:00I keep coming back to this post to add new items o...I keep coming back to this post to add new items of interest when I run across them. I recently learned that Toby Willis of "The Willis Clan" was arrested in August for raping a close female family member some 12 years ago. Some sources say that it went on over the course of a couple years. The times and dates given sadly correspond with the ages of his oldest daughters, the oldest of which recently left home and got a new boyfriend and a new life. (Type his name into Google and you'll see a lot of stuff right now.)<br /><br />The Willis family has 12 kids, they were on "America's Got Talent", they had their own reality T.V. show, they are home schoolers, and they belong to a small house church. I don't have proof, but from things I saw and heard on their show, I would guess that the parents were raised in some brand of Fundamentalist extremism, if not in Gothardism itself, which is why I'm posting this here. Toby decided that the rules he was raised with didn't work for him in knowing how to relate to girls as a young man, so they chose to teach their kids dancing as a way to learn how to interact with the opposite sex (see footnote). The Willis kids are also musicians and wrestlers. The kids are exceptional at all three.<br /><br />But, Toby seemed like a very demanding and heavy handed father on the show. I noticed how hard he was on them at times, perhaps somewhat more so on the girls. He simply wouldn't take "no" for an answer in certain situations and _demanded_ that the kids perform exceptionally well. He wanted them to be the best. <br /><br />It's getting to the place where if I run across a family where the father is a dictator and/or demands perfection, I'm going to be wondering what is really going on, especially if they home school and have a reclusive or exclusive attitude toward their religion. It's like a curse that the men who crave absolute power over their families always abuse it.<br /><br />Footnote - I can only guess as to why dancing has been chosen as the alternative to no contact, but it is being used more and more by home school, patriarchal people from what I've seen. I don't personally see it as a great way to build a relationship in and of itself because it doesn't *tend* toward serious conversation and emotional connection - which is probably why they chose it, no? In fact, it is curious that they would choose it in light of that famous quote that "Dancing is a vertical expression of a horizontal desire." (Or something like that.)<br /> <br />Anyway, this appears to me to be yet another example of what you were writing about here. You don't have to post this if you don't want to, but I thought it might be of interest to you.Mary E. Stephenshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09206071568335923658noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4051826042602269061.post-88536680943266236272016-07-19T13:40:45.510-07:002016-07-19T13:40:45.510-07:00Excellent article, you covered a lot of ground her...Excellent article, you covered a lot of ground here in a very clear and concise manner. landslughttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01792695105592005498noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4051826042602269061.post-12920123685791796392016-05-29T19:10:17.113-07:002016-05-29T19:10:17.113-07:00Yes it is. Then too, they don't have to be po...Yes it is. Then too, they don't have to be powerful to be ignored. I've heard of cases where it was just some ordinary guy (and one of them wasn't even that great of a man otherwise), but no one could believe he could be "that bad" so they ignored it and the abuse continued. But, in some way, one would like to think that in notable men it would be exposed more quickly in order to avoid excessive scandal and embarrassment to those around him, or so it seems to me.<br /><br />In writing last year on the subject of why women are blamed for their husband's unfaithfulness I came up with 7 reasons as to why women do get the blame. I'm sure I missed some, but it was an interesting thing to consider.<br />The reasons I expanded upon:<br />1. It's the historical norm.<br />2. It's the cultural norm.<br />3. Scripture has been misconstrued and misinterpreted.<br />4. Women tend to blame themselves.<br />5. Women are "dispensable".<br />6. Other men have their own dirty secrets. (Mutual protection program.)<br />7. Women are more likely to accept unjust treatment (thanks to the brainwashing of no. 1-3 and the effects of no. 4).Mary E. Stephenshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09206071568335923658noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4051826042602269061.post-87428566588496146512016-05-29T18:38:20.557-07:002016-05-29T18:38:20.557-07:00My dad has told us for years to "watch the ma...My dad has told us for years to "watch the magician's other hand" when the powers that be pull off some large grand-stand stunt that consumes everyone's attention and distracts them completely from the real issues. Curiously, I'd never really thought about this in depth as far as the high-tooley-mucks of Christendom go, but it holds true, doesn't it? How better to keep "the laity" distracted from the real problems than keep them focused on things that create strong emotion without much real purpose? There is no new thing under the sun.Mary E. Stephenshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09206071568335923658noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4051826042602269061.post-4635009221885082492016-05-28T20:41:50.634-07:002016-05-28T20:41:50.634-07:00Especially in light of the current Cosby case. I&#...Especially in light of the current Cosby case. I'm really disappointed in him, as I truly loved this man and what he had accomplished. It proves the point that we shouldn't hold celebrities to another level than what we hold regular people. Being human with human flaws, is what we should be more cognizant, but we also need to be more vigilant of problems. This society has to be held to a higher calling than we do, but it's not a religious one. It's more like a reality -- common sense, I think.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03753968685005786107noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4051826042602269061.post-70276347049911642502016-05-26T09:19:33.839-07:002016-05-26T09:19:33.839-07:00Good links. Looking the other way while powerful m...Good links. Looking the other way while powerful men abuse women is a longstanding tradition, isn't it?Diary of an Autodidacthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11849157548643091986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4051826042602269061.post-69661108121878649922016-05-26T09:18:22.216-07:002016-05-26T09:18:22.216-07:00Isn't it interesting how rape and assault are ...Isn't it interesting how rape and assault are covered up whenever the perpetrator is in an exalted position (whether of pastor or football star...)? <br /><br />I hope to blog a bit about the transgender bathroom issue, because it has served as a nice distraction from the Baylor issue. Why focus on real threats and problems when you can make one up and sell fear? Diary of an Autodidacthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11849157548643091986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4051826042602269061.post-62941028940172498402016-05-24T20:22:43.260-07:002016-05-24T20:22:43.260-07:00I think I didn't include links in the previous...I think I didn't include links in the previous comment.<br /><br />http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2016/05/24/baylor_reportedly_fired_president_and_chancellor_kenneth_starr_it_needs.html<br /><br />https://www.facebook.com/topic/Kenneth-Starr/137770496245198?source=whrt&position=8&trqid=6288443553969654233Mary E. Stephenshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09206071568335923658noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4051826042602269061.post-23213700633632707672016-05-24T20:18:33.925-07:002016-05-24T20:18:33.925-07:00This seemed like a good place to post this comment...This seemed like a good place to post this comment:<br /><br />I saw tonight that a sex scandal is apparently rising up around the ears of the "sacred heart of Baptist-ism", Baylor U. here in Texas. Somehow someone has finally gotten someone's attention and there are even rumors that THE Kenneth Starr, President and Chancellor of the college, has been fired.<br /><br />There have been several recent reports of rapes and such like by football team members which have been allegedly ignored by the powers that be. <br /><br />This would be no surprise since one of their up-and-coming preacher boys from some years back was accused of rape or sexual aggression by a female student and the thing was reportedly done in an athletic facility at Baylor after a practice or sports event, if I remember correctly (not sure it was football). Anyway, the guy got away with it apparently because he was such a wonderful person and was destined for great things, and the girl had "falsely accused someone before", so... He's in prison now having been convicted of murdering his wife, apparently so that he could marry his "other woman." There are also rumors of other questionable behavior. Oh, did I mention this happened while he was the pastor of a church in Waco and considered to be a "promising" man?<br /><br />I have to say that it would be really refreshing if Baylor's covering of sexual offences was broken wide open and the history of it were revealed. At this point people seem focused on the "recent" offences. It doesn't seem like this is a "new and unusual" thing caused by the present football coach. This has, apparently, been an on-going problem of undetermined length. No surprise, there as it's a tragically old story of covering for the male offender because he's "too valuable" to lose. The woman has been expendable since the day Adam accused God of giving him damaged goods in Eve - and God didn't buy it!Mary E. Stephenshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09206071568335923658noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4051826042602269061.post-30148260476505478412015-10-10T21:47:36.313-07:002015-10-10T21:47:36.313-07:00This is common in closed religious societies. The ...This is common in closed religious societies. The LDS church used to keep all sexual abuse, child abuse, spousal abuse as "family" issues. Nothing was reported to authorities. This changed after the Catholic Church scandal and assessment of liability. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4051826042602269061.post-51980045568695920052015-10-10T21:01:18.535-07:002015-10-10T21:01:18.535-07:00I've removed some things from my page recently...I've removed some things from my page recently with a view to restudying and rewriting them. I might have been worse at 20. I was so incredibly smart then. :-/<br /><br />I'm glad you liked the chart. It is odd that Mormonism has gone the way it has.Mary E. Stephenshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09206071568335923658noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4051826042602269061.post-747597025759193562015-10-05T16:18:05.533-07:002015-10-05T16:18:05.533-07:00"It's a work in progress to keep updating..."It's a work in progress to keep updating things as we grow and learn." Isn't that the truth! Likewise with my blog. I read a few things from the beginning and wince. Fortunately, we at least don't have to be like we were at 15, right? <br /><br />Your chart, in any case, is excellent. I too have noticed many similarities between the two - particularly early Mormonism. (I find it interesting that Mormonism has become less cult-like over the last several decades. Quite the opposite from the usual cult-group trajectory...) I'll make a note of your link. It might come in handy for a future post. Diary of an Autodidacthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11849157548643091986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4051826042602269061.post-92115264044850915532015-10-05T11:43:04.328-07:002015-10-05T11:43:04.328-07:00Oh...and I hadn't looked into Kellogg, though ...Oh...and I hadn't looked into Kellogg, though I knew he was "funny". Sounds like a nut, pun intended. I was born not far from Battle Creek and lots of things around there were named after him. My dad took my brother and me to tour the Kellogg plant once - before they stopped the tours. I think I need to add diet fads to the Mormon-Patriarchy chart... Mary E. Stephenshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09206071568335923658noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4051826042602269061.post-7375275960753997972015-10-05T11:40:06.422-07:002015-10-05T11:40:06.422-07:00I enjoyed Sherlock Holmes in my late teens as well...I enjoyed Sherlock Holmes in my late teens as well. But, when I got into some of A.C. Doyle's other fiction and learned about his avid "spirtism", I was put off. I still enjoy watching some of the vintage Sherlock Holmes films, though, particularly those starring Rathbone and Bruce.<br /><br />I put together a chart comparing Mormonism and Patriarchy. You can see it here: http://www.homemakerscorner.com/patriarchy-comparison-with-mormonism.htm<br />I will forewarn you that if you poke around the web site you *will* find things you disagree with. But, truthfully, so do I. :-) It's a work in progress to keep updating things as we grow and learn.Mary E. Stephenshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09206071568335923658noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4051826042602269061.post-5917803958611225352015-09-28T14:35:14.834-07:002015-09-28T14:35:14.834-07:00I love the Sherlock Holmes books! I read every sin...I love the Sherlock Holmes books! I read every single one back in my late teens - and own them all. <br /><br />A Study In Scarlet was interesting, wasn't it? Back when it was written, Doyle was hardly the only European to find the Mormons titillating. Typical American savagery! This is what happens when you have religious freedom and no state religion. And so on. <br /><br />I too have been struck by the similarities between Mormonism and Patriarchy. Both originated (in part) out of a literalist-theonomic approach to the Old Testament, and a belief that "true" Christianity had become corrupt, and that they were the only "true" believers. Perhaps in some ways, these tendencies are an American tradition. (Likewise for diet fads. Ever read about John Harvey Kellogg? We still have his corn flakes, but they apparently do not prevent masturbation as he had hoped. Diary of an Autodidacthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11849157548643091986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4051826042602269061.post-9010038945272301952015-09-28T14:29:02.765-07:002015-09-28T14:29:02.765-07:00Indeed. Indeed. Diary of an Autodidacthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11849157548643091986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4051826042602269061.post-75320327128207309622015-09-25T19:07:03.813-07:002015-09-25T19:07:03.813-07:00Speaking of Doug Wilson. Did you ever read "...Speaking of Doug Wilson. Did you ever read "A Study In Scarlet" by Arthur Conan Doyle? He's not a favorite of mine, but despite the partially inaccurate portrayal of early Mormonism, the book is intriguing when considered in light of the abuses of Christian Patriarchy. One wonders when a relative or thwarted lover of one of the abused young women trapped in the cult will resort to extreme measures, and also why there aren't any cases of it yet, as far as I know. (And not without opportunity. If true it was reported to the effect that Lourdes Torres' father and brother chased Doug Phillips the night he attempted to enter her room through a window, but when they finally saw who they were chasing, they stopped. Why?) The power that the prophets of the modern Patriarchy Movement hold over their followers is worthy of the early day prophets of Salt Lake City. Yet another similarity between the two.Mary E. Stephenshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09206071568335923658noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4051826042602269061.post-28594283884478177182015-09-25T18:40:34.512-07:002015-09-25T18:40:34.512-07:00Oh, I don't expect the money grubbers to refor...Oh, I don't expect the money grubbers to reform. My heart hurts for the people (especially the women folk) living in run down singlewides in the woods with 7-17 children to feed, clothe and homeschool on a limited income (often with the help of one or more older daughters who aren't married and have no prospects) while the husband either works several jobs or runs around trying to locate run down vehicles to refurbish and sell at a profit. Not that living in a singlewide is a disgrace. We live in one ourselves. And living close to the land isn't shameful either, if one so chooses. It's the whole "religious duty" of "taking dominion" and the bondage that engenders that grieves me. While the fat cats like Doug Phillips, Scott Brown and the Duggars live in the lap of luxury, the reality of many is a pitiable existence, even when they do "put a happy face on" it. I would love to see some of them get their eyes opened enough to realize they aren't obligated to live that way to "please God". Sadly for some, they live like the world is a "zombie apocalypse" and they are hiding from it the best they can. It's incredibly sad to see it up close as we've had opportunity to here in Texas.Mary E. Stephenshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09206071568335923658noreply@blogger.com